User blog:Gcheung28/Transcript From Breaking Dawn Book Club Chat Part 1



Last night, we had a great discussion on the Twilight Saga Wiki for our Wikia Book Club! We read the first 16 chapters of Breaking Dawn and went over some discussion topics which you can check out here. The hour-long conversation veered in a number of different directions, but there savvy insights being raised by all who participated.

If you weren’t able to join in our discussion, don't worry! Now’s your chance to continue the conversation! Below you can find an edited transcript of the hour-long chat (edited to group discussion topics together, remove the various “so-and-so has entered/exited the chat” messages, etc.). Feel free to leave your thoughts on any of the topics in the comments below!

And be sure to participate in our next live chat scheduled for Thursday, October 25 at 5 p.m. PST. We’ll be discussing chapters 17 through 28. Thanks and hope to see you all then!

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Gcheung28: This was actually my first time reading Breaking Dawn haha

Ericmoro: Mine too!

Lily!: i havent read the books, only seen da movies xP

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I re-read the second half of book 3 back in August. I think I've read the first three novels three times each, though

Kate.moon: that's awesome what's your favorite?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If you were talking to me, then New Moon.

Kate.moon: team jacob ;)

Gcheung28: nice

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: :D Yesssss.

Lily!: xD my favorite MOVIE is um.... hm....BDP1. so far

Ericmoro: The very first book is a super-fast read

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^ Agreed.

Kate.moon: agreed

Gcheung28: agreed x2

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: My favorite movie would have to be New Moon, as well.

LavendaBrunette: I haven't read these books in years, I can barely even remember them anymore.

Gcheung28: I really liked the scenes with the Volturi

Kate.moon: same

LavendaBrunette: I dropped YA a while ago.

Kate.moon: i was excited to see them in new moon

Gcheung28: @LavendaBrunette maybe your memory will be jogged with this discussion!

LavendaBrunette: Oh god, I LOVE the Volturi.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Team Eleazar.

LavendaBrunette: @Gcheung Perhaps!

EricmoroSo: ... moderator... let's get to discussing. :)

LavendaBrunette: Dee, shut up. Lmfao.

Gcheung28: Roger that!

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Ahaaah Okay.

Lily!: the volturi

Gcheung28: So in the first part of the book that we read for today, how did you guys feel when we found out Bella was pregnant!

Lily!: is incredible

Gcheung28: Would you put yourself in Rosalie’s camp, which fought to keep the baby, or do you identify more with Edward and Carlisle, who wished to terminate the pregnancy? Did your thoughts on this change at all as the pregnancy progressed?

Lily!: i mean i died when i saw them in new moon.... they are just so awesome. oh um TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I felt like it was awkward. I mean... vampires shouldn't be able to get anyway pregnant, lol.

Lily!: i agree with dee

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And on the second question, I'd say I'm in Edward and Carlisle's place. It just didn't make sense to me to keep it. It was so... strange.

Ericmoro: Me too....

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Sorry that I'm talking too much, lol

Gcheung28: Was it really weird for you to read that Bella made that decision then?

Lily!: um

Ericmoro: For her own safety, it didn't make sense for Bella to have the baby

Gcheung28: It really seemed like some kind of mother's instincts kicking in or something that she decided to keep the baby though

Lily!: bella definitely was brave tho to have the baby

Ericmoro: for sure

Lily!: cuz like she knew she was gonna probably die but she just went ahead and had it

Ericmoro: @Gcheung, definitely a mother's instinct

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: It wasn't weird for me, since it's such a Bella thing to do.

Lily!: which i find cool D XD

Gcheung28: Go Bella, right?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I don't get how Bella was so determined to have this kid, though, when she didn't like kids in the first place.

LavendaBrunette: Bella was brave, but also stupid. 2 weeks before she got pregnant she was completely meh about kids, and then she's suddenly so fiercely protective of one? And it seemed like she only loved the kid because it was Edward's baby.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I mean, she said she hadn't minded not having kids at all. I agree with Kelly. Or, Lavenda.

Gcheung28: But if she loved Edward so much, wouldn't that have changed her mind a bit when he said he didn't want her to have the baby?

Ericmoro: Well... I think it was BECAUSE it was Edward's baby that she loved it so much

LavendaBrunette: I agree, Eric.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If Bella got pregnant by Jacob (or anyone else, I think) at eighteen, she wouldn't have wanted to keep it that much.

LavendaBrunette: Once again, Bella's only making decisions based on Edward and not herself.

Gcheung28: How about that suggestion Edward made to Jacob then?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, that.

Gcheung28: Do you think that was the right thing for him to do?

LavendaBrunette: That was flat-out rude tbh.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh my gosh, that part. Agreed with Kel.I mean... Jake's heartbroken; not desperate. That was strange.

Lily!: well yeah

LavendaBrunette: He's kind of teasing Jacob with that suggestion. "Here, have sex with her once so she can have babies and then leave us alone."

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And it was even stranger of Edward to think that Bella would want that.

Gcheung28: It kind of seemed like, to me, that he was seriously considering it though

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, yeah.

Gcheung28: poor Jacob :(

Lily!: dude i totally love edward

Gcheung28: So going back to Bella and Edward then. In the beginning, Bella chooses romantic love over everything else. Eventually, she chooses to marry at an early age and then chooses to keep an unexpected and dangerous baby. Do you think this makes Bella an anti-feminist character? What would you have done in Bella's place?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I don't enjoy Edward's decisions. Or Bella's. Yes. And I would have probably decided to get rid of the child. It was a danger, man.

Lily!: ^ definitely

Gcheung28: @TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt yes she is an anti-feminist character?

Lily!: bella almost died but thank lord for edward

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Then again, if I were Bella, I wouldn't have been in that position, because I would have picked Jacob. Yes, at most times. @Gcheung28

Gcheung28: Does that make you feel a certain way about the books then?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yeah.

LavendaBrunette: I wouldn't say BELLA is an anti-feminist character, I'd say the Twilight saga in general is an anti-feminist set of books. It seems like most of the time, males are superior throughout the books.

Gcheung28:A lot of girls are reading these series but maybe Bella isn't a great role model haha. good point!

LavendaBrunette: Oh, Bella's a terrible role model.

Lily!: bella apparently went psycho crazy in BD what i have heard from ppl

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Like, I like them a lot, but Bella's so... ugh. And yeah, Bella's not the girl to look up to, in most ways.

Ericmoro: Yeah, I kinda felt it was a little anti-feminist...

Gcheung28: Do any of the other female characters in the series stand out to you more? In a better light, I guess?

LavendaBrunette: The female coven leaders from BD. Tanya, Kachiri, Siobhan.

Ericmoro: like, it was written from a very "this is your role as a woman/wife" kinda thing

LavendaBrunette: ^^^^^

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Tanya, especially.

Kate.moon: agree with the female coven leaders

LavendaBrunette: At least SM isn't totally opposed to female leadership.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And Leah.

Gcheung28: @LavandaBrunette do you want to go into more detail about those characters?

Kate.moon: they're all such strong independent women

Lily!: oh um well i havent read the bok books but

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I know.

Lily!: i like kate and zafrina and garret

LavendaBrunette: Sure, Gcheung.

Lily!: and jane

Ericmoro: Alice, anyone?

Kate.moon: even though jane is supposed to be evil

Lily!: and um..... Siobhan OH YEAH ALICE IS

Kate.moon: i think she's a great character

Lily!: AMAZING

Kate.moon: alie is my favorite ;)

LavendaBrunette: It's hard to go into them though, because they're such minor characters.

Kate.moon: *alice

Gcheung28: Jane is great even though she's kind of evil haha

LavendaBrunette: Lily, please stop spamming.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I kind of like Alice; she's relevant in the books and movies a lot.

LavendaBrunette: And I LOVE Jane.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Jane gives me the creeps, but I like the monster.

Kate.moon: i wish alice had more of a role in the movies like she did in the books. she's such a great character

Gcheung28: Seems like Alice did a great job with Bella's wedding too :) book and movie-wise

Lily!: i love jane. end of story

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yeah, it was beautiful.

Lily!: oh ikr

Gcheung28: So going back to Alice

LavendaBrunette: Alice is a bit of a pest to me, but her power and backstory are really intreguing.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^

Lily!: ^^ true *true

LavendaBrunette: *intriguing

Lily!: ^ xD

Gcheung28: how about Alice and Bella's friendship? oh why do you think Alice is a pest? @LavendaBrunette

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think Bella has the hugest crush on Alice. Their friendship is cute, though.

Lily!: alice and bellas friendship is nice to me

Kate.moon: yea i think it's one of the best in the series

Lily!: just from twilight when she hugs bella and says they are gonna be friends

Kate.moon: relationships wise

Lily!: something clicked with me and alice and yeah i think alice is kinda like me in some weird way....XD

LavendaBrunette: I think Alice is a pest because she's such a huge stereotype.

Gcheung28: In what way?

LavendaBrunette: Especially with the shopping obsession.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, yeah.

LavendaBrunette: She's too much of a stereotypical girl.

Ericmoro: Valley girl ;)

LavendaBrunette: I don't know what else to say but that. She butts in a little too much for my liking.

Gcheung28: Ahhh, do you think that makes her kind of an anti-feminist character too?

LavendaBrunette: But her backstory is spot on. No, not necessarily.

Lily!: alice is definitely not anti anything

Ericmoro: no way... don't get an anti-feminist vibe from her

Lily!: she is rlly nice and sweet and just kind..... at least in the movies

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Me neither; she kicks butt.

Gcheung28: Ok cool! I also love her and Jasper together :D

LavendaBrunette: I love her and Jasper's story.

Gcheung28: Jasper is a pretty great character too!

Lily!: i thought jasper was so strange in twilight but then in eclipse i rlly figured him out and started to like him.... but i kinda hated him in new moon for what he tried to do to bella

LavendaBrunette: I just find it so sad that there are so many amazing backstories that SM could have made into a book, yet she chose BELLA to write about.

Lily!: so true

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Bella's a clean, boring slate; you can do anything with her.

Lily!: oh and jasper's backstory was AMAZING

LavendaBrunette: I'd love a book about the Volturi to be honest. From their rise to today.

Gcheung28: Maybe they'll do some kind of spinoffs with the backstories for fans in the future! That would be pretty awesome

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I would love that.

Lily!: yeah i would love tht

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: With the Quileutes, especially. (Sorry, I'm a wolf person.)

Lily!: mhmmm

Gcheung28: Speaking of the wolf pack Did you like the switch to Jacob’s point of view in Breaking Dawn? What is Jake able to tell us that Bella (or Edward) couldn’t? Did hearing his side of the story change your view of him?

Lily!: dang u probably type fast

Ericmoro: I think he's able to give us a less "obscured" point of view

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I really, really did love his perspective. As angst-ridden as it was, it was like a breath of fresh air. He and Bella are so different.

Gcheung28: @Eric can you expand on that?

Ericmoro: a more level-headed perspective. I mean...

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: It's nice to see the story from different eyes, because Bella is a bit biased and ditzy. I agree, Eric.

Kate.moon: because he's not as emotional as bella?

Gcheung28: Agreed!

Kate.moon: i do agree with that

Ericmoro: and I agree with @TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt... he's angst ridden

Gcheung28: But there is that part where he goes to attack the Cullens because he thinks Bella was changed...

Ericmoro: but, like @Kate.moon said... not as emotional

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: You can call me Taycob, and @Kate I do agree he's not as emotional. But he thinks with his head more.

Kate.moon: yea i think his emotions were heightened of course with losing bella to edward the potential that she's turned but for the most part i like seeing the outside perspective

Gcheung28: True, his weak spot is definitely Bella

Kate.moon: away from the cullens

Ericmoro: Ok... so let me revise...pretty much EVERYONE in the story is emotional...

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And, he has a pretty good reason to be angsty. He claimed to not be mad that Bella picked Edward over him, but rather that Bella picked dying over living. Agreed! Haha.

Ericmoro: but I would say Jacob is *less* so

Kate.moon: for sure definitely less than

Gcheung28: Haha agreed

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: My heart aches for Jacob, lol.

Kate.moon: bella, who is our main source

Gcheung28: So what is Jake able to tell us that Bella (or Edward) couldn’t?

LavendaBrunette: Jake is able to give us real perspective. Bella is too biased for us to really see the full picture.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: The actual deal of the treaty, for one thing, since a lot of the stuff Bella hears isn't all of the story.

Kate.moon: that's exactly what i think too

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Agreed, Kel.

Kate.moon: it's had to question someone's decisions when it's told fro their perspective *hard

Gcheung28: There isn't a section with Edward's perspective either so do you think that would have added anything to the book if there was? I personally loved Jacob's description of Edward as the burning man, but I would have loved reading about Edward's inner thoughts too

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Edward's thoughts would have slayed me. In a good way. He's creepy to me, but interesting.

Kate.moon: i get the impression that they would've been near obsessive

Gcheung28: Creepy haha?

Kate.moon: but different perspectives are always interesting

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^

Gcheung28: Who's perspectives would you have liked to hear from in the book? Rosalie's might have been cool too

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Jacob's, Edward's, Leah's in some parts, Rosalie's in some parts as well, and maybe Carlisle.

Gcheung28: I'm also a huge Charlie fan so I would have loved a smaaaall section from him!

Kate.moon: they all have such different views on what's right and what's good for bella

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Rosalie reminds me of Rumpelstiltskin, lol; she just wants that child! Charlie is awesome, haha.

LavendaBrunette: Omfg

Ericmoro: Charlie's perspective would have been AWESOME

Gcheung28: Hahaha great comparison!

LavendaBrunette: And I love Charlie.

Gcheung28: Reading about Charlie at the beginning with the wedding and everything was sweet It must have been really hard for him to let his daughter go away!

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I feel so bad for Charlie, lol. He has no idea what's really going on with his daughter.

LavendaBrunette: From Bella's POV he's invasive, but in reality, he's really only concerned about his daughter's safety and he is totally in-bounds on an apporopriateness level.

Kate.moon: i agree

Gcheung28: It seemed like Jacob was also concerned about Charlie

LavendaBrunette: I'd hate Edward too if he was the reason why my daughter suffered a 6-month depression and was always off doing God-knows-what with him.

Gcheung28: Did hearing Jacob's side of the story change your view of him?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Riiiiight. Yeah. It made me realize that he really needed to be happy.

Gcheung28: How did you feel then when Jacob finally accepted his birthright as Alpha?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I felt like it was about time. :o

LavendaBrunette: ^^^^^

Ericmoro: About freakin' time!

Gcheung28: It seemed like he really didn't want to, but it meant that Sam couldn't order him around anymore

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: It's Jake's birthright; he shouldn't have denied it.

Gcheung28: He is a natural born leader, but do you think leading a pack would make him happy or fulfilled? He doesn't seem that happy to get Seth and Leah on his side either haha

Ericmoro: In his case (i.e. being a werewolf) I think its instinctual to be leading the pack

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I don't think it would have made him happy, but it was the right thing to do.

Ericmoro: so if he weren't doing it, I think he'd definitely feel UN-happy

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yes, exactly.

Ericmoro: great minds ;)

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And I'm glad that Leah went with him.

Gcheung28: Do you think it was necessary for him to accept his birthright in order to protect Bella?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If anyone especially needed a breath of fresh air, it was her.

LavendaBrunette: I honestly think Jacob should have just run away from the pack, started up a new life in Butthole, Canada, and stopped phasing. I think THEN he would have been happy

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ...Hm, no.

Gcheung28: Hahahaha

Kate.moon: LOL

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh my God, what is "Butthole, Canada."

LavendaBrunette: It's my version of Middle of Nowhere. Deal with it.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Ah-ah-ah, "DealWithIt"'s my thing, booboo.

Gcheung28: @TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt why do you think not and @LavendaBrunette it seems like Jacob was pretty torn up so do you think that would have worked?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I don't think it was necessary because laws should come first. Jake was so hung up over Bella, it was sickening. But I understood his pain.

Gcheung28: I think one of the worst parts was at the end of chapter 16 when Jacob saw how happy Edward and Bella were

Ericmoro: @Gcheung28, I do think it was necessary for Jacob to accept his birthright in order to protect Bella Both the vamps and the wolves deal in "black & white"

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: That broke my heart so much, oh my goodness @Gcheung28

Ericmoro: there are no shades of gray

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ...."shades of gray" lol. Sorry. But I agree, Eric.

Gcheung28: That's true!

Ericmoro: because of that, and without Jacob adding that extra layer of understanding, the pack would've gone after her

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: But it was in the treaty; the Cullens were breaking it.

Gcheung28: Refresh my memory on this, but did the treaty just not allow the turning of humans into vampires/killing humans? Because in technical terms, wouldn't having a vampire child not really mean that someone was being turned?

Fusedtwilight: It also said the cullens could not enter the Quileute land and vice versa

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yes. Having a vampire child would break the treaty either way, because Bella would have died or been turned.

Gcheung28: Ah true, good catch on that! So when Jacob left the pack, were you surprised that other shifters joined his "renegade pack"? Not that surprised about Seth since he became friends with Edward, but Leah?

Fusedtwilight: But the Quielutes already gave permission for her to be turned. They were just afraid because no one knew what Nessie was going to be I kind of figured Leah would, it was a good chance for her to get away from sam and she had to look after Seth

LavendaBrunette: I'm not surprised about Leah—she wanted to protect her brother.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, I wasn't surprised. Seth looks up to Jake and Leah wanted to protect Seth.

Gcheung28: Do you think Embry and Quil shoul have joined their best friend though?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Yes!

Fusedtwilight: Quil couldn't because of his imprint to Claire and Sam wouldn't let Embry anywhere near Jake

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh my gosh, I totally think so. Quil could have still been there, though, whether he imprinted or not.

Gcheung28: But if Seth and Leah were able to break free to join their new Alpha, Embry should have been able to too right?

Fusedtwilight: Sam may have ordered him to stay when he realized Leah and Seth left

Ericmoro: maybe age has something to do with it? easier for the younger ones to switch sides?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Embry did also grow less close to Jake, I think. Or it was Quil. I forgot.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: And I don't think age had to do with it, because Leah's about as old as Sam.

Fusedtwilight: I don't think. Quil didn't want to risk not being able to see Claire, he did want to join Jake. And Jake figured Sam was keeping Embry in La Push so he couldn't join Jake because he sent Collin....or was it brady? With Jared to speak with Jake

Gcheung28: Hmm, but then again Leah really wanted to get away from Sam though! Well, interesting stuff to chew on!

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I am so glad Leah got out of it.

Gcheung28: Getting back to the baby what do you think of the name Bella chose? Do you like it or do you wish that the baby was given a different name? Why?

Fusedtwilight: I don't know why people hate the name so much, it is a bit odd sure but not so bad.

Gcheung28: It was a very unique name for sure

Fusedtwilight: it kind of sounds like a flower

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: I think Renesmee is an odd name, but at least Stephenie Meyer said she wouldn't name a real child that.

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If Bella loved all of her family should would have named her Rensmettalie Charjaslicephilisle, lol.

Ericmoro: hahahaha

Gcheung28: Hahaha

Ericmoro: yeah... weird name...

Gcheung28: Do you think that there is a better name that would have fit their vampire baby?

Ericmoro: why add even MORE attention to yourself/your vampire family with a strange name?

Gcheung28: That is true!

Ericmoro: Claudia

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Hmm... something not after a family member would have been fine, but Renesmee's not an ordinary child, so she shouldn't have an ordinary name.

Gcheung28: @Eric any reason?

Fusedtwilight: Like the vampire child from interview with the vampire?

Ericmoro: BINGO!!!! ;)

Gcheung28: @TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt good point, but that name DOES draw a lot of attention like Eric said haha

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Agreed.

Gcheung28: skipping ahead a bit, were you excited to read that the baby was a girl and not the boy that Bella kept thinking she was going to have?

LavendaBrunette: I was kind of expecting a girl tbh.

Gcheung28: oh really, why?

LavendaBrunette: The boy emphasis was so strong that I expected the opposite.

Fusedtwilight: When it was revealed that the chapter was called imprint i knew it was going to be a girl and he would imprint

LavendaBrunette: ^^^^^

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Same as Kelly, because Bella has strange luck.

Gcheung28: What if it had worked the other way though, and it was a boy that Leah imprinted on or something? That could have been a sweet story :D

Fusedtwilight: can you imagie how pissed sam would have been if leah imprinted on a hybrid?

Gcheung28: Hahaha

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: If that happened, I would have *died*

Gcheung28: Now that would have made an interesting spin off!

Fusedtwilight: if leah finds love i hope it is not an imprint

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: ^

Gcheung28: @Fusedtwilight Any reason for that?

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Saaaaame.

Gcheung28: I just hope Leah finds love in general!

Ericmoro: Same

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Agreed! She deserves to be happy. And love doesn't equal happiness, but it would certainly help.

Fusedtwilight: I mean, i want her to find love. But i don't want it to be some instant kind of thing you know, i want it to be the good old fashioned way. Not that i have anything against imprinting. I just think Leah needs to solve her issues without having to fall head over heels with someone

Gcheung28: Two good points from the both of you! Well, we've reached the end of our discussion topics for this first round, but thank you so much for joining us!! Is there any final stuff you want to go through about Chapters 1-16 that we missed?

Fusedtwilight: i'm good

Ericmoro: Great chatting with you all... looking forward to the next one!

Fusedtwilight: when is that?

Gcheung28: coming up soon actually! october 25

Ericmoro: next Thursday

Gcheung28: same time and same place :)

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Oh, okay!

Gcheung28: We'll read ch. 17- ch. 28 and discuss!

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Awesome!

Fusedtwilight: aight

Gcheung28: This was a really great talk though and you've all given great ideas :D

TeamTaycobSoDealWithIt: Thank you. :)

Gcheung28: I'll be putting up a transcript of this chat for other users to read so be on the lookout! I'll also make sure to share the second discussion topics on the Twilight wiki as well Thanks again for joining us and I really hope you can all make the chat next Thursday :D