Talk:Breaking Dawn/@comment-184.46.17.18-20140604183003/@comment-24927180-20140907175148

^ Actually, Bella has shown herself to be very immature a lot in the story. Her interactions with Charlie  are proof enough of this, and again I would call her selfish through a lot of the story. It's actually one of the qualites that if she had ever admitted to being would, and someone had agreed that she is instead of always telling her that she was selfless she might not get called a mary-sue all the time.

I don't know what you mean by dependent?

I would say Bella is more independent than anything until it comes to Edward which then she becomes very dependent on him, but outside of that I will say she's an independent character.

Bella's character has a lot of bad qualities that nobody likes to admit, and liking a character doesn't mean you can't be honest that they have flaws. Bella's charcter has many negative flaws, but everyone tells her that she's perfect, that she doesn't have that flaw because she's amazing which is what gives her a bad-rep.

Nobody want's perfect.

You want a character that's selfish, that's doing this because it's what she wants, not a character always told by LI's that she's selfless when that's not true.

It's like how Bella swears she's acts mature for her age, but in reality she acts, thinks, and jumps to things without any thought like anyother teenager, and then everyone swears she's mature.

A mature person doesn't threaten their father with moving out, a mature person doesn't break two boys hearts because she can't choose, a mature person doesn't walk over to a group of bikers, possibly getting herself, and her friend killed, these are all things a immature teenager would do.

Bella never risks her life for anyone.

In the movie she does, but in the books she just thinks about it. The only person she ever risked her own life for was: Renee (Twilight only), and Edward (New Moon only).

The things that she only thought about doing, but never did, don't count. Cutting herself (Eclipse) didn't happen in the book, fighting the Volturi (Breaking Dawn) didn't happen at all.

I'm on the fence with her being pregnant with Renesmee. Though, it was nice of her to be ready to die for Renesmee, again it's one of those things that never happened, that she didn't think would happen because she was sure that Edward would save her, and he did. So, it wasn't a big sacrfice, we knew Edward would save her, she knew Edward would save her, it's not like she went into it sure that she was going to die, she went in very aware that Edward would/could save her. It's nice that she would have died for her daughter, but at the same time she never thought that she actually would.

So, I would say she's knowingly risked her life two and a half times in the book. Renesmee get's a half-point because Bella didn't expect to die, and she didn't, so...it counts that she was aware she could die even though she was sure that she wouldn't. It would have been different if she had been like she was in the movies, fully aware that she was/could die, but in the book she was adament that Edward would turn her in time.

It wasn't a risk to her. It was just something that needed to be done.

If we go by the movies then I would call her a bit more selfless, but she is still selfish. Risking your life doesn't make you any less selfish. You can save someoes life, but still be selfish. That's possible.

I get that Edward was the best thing ever to her, but that doesn't mean she had to think poorly of her human friends who had been kind to her, break Jacob's heart over and over, possibly getting herself and Jessica killed, being insanely rude to Charlie who we only ever saw him being good to Bella, and she never gives the people who are kind to her any sort of credit.

Do you see why I call her selfish?

Bella is a immatue, selfish  teenager, sometimes, which is okay!

If people would stop defending her like she's freaking Mother Teresa, and admit that she's not perfect. She's need flaws! It's bad enough that Meyer gave her so few to begin with ( and no being clumsy does not count as a major flaw that's a sue flaw)  The only character that ever called her out was Leah, but that part got pulled from the book which is a shame because Bella needs someone to make her evaluate herself as a person.

It's okay to like Bella, but still say that she has flaws, that she's a whiny, immature, selfish teenager at times.